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Carole · Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 7

Hi Kim. Just for fun could we have a poll about next years Nationals please? Thanks. Carole.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

As in where do people want Nationals to be?

I already know what the response will be - MELBOURNE!!!!

They will all want to come and see our pretty new rink.

But I can do a poll if you want.

magic thinkin · Mastering Flip Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 29

Unless ISA change some of it's requirements regarding the running and funding of Nationals they may find themselves short of state associations willing to tender to host them Michael Santer was rather vocal around the barrier on the last day of Nationals 09 regarding ISA. He commented that WA had asked for a summary on the problems they encountered before they would look at tendering and Michael also commented that NSW wouldn't be asking for them again until the process changes.

Mind you I don't think Canterbury should host anything else until an effort is made to clean it up. The mould in the rink is apalling and the videos really show the rink in a poor light. I acknowlege it is run as a not for profit rink but surely cleaning the barriers prior to the comp wouldn't have broken the bank.

Strike3 · Joined: 28 Dec 2008 Posts: 4

Everyone knows Micheal Santer and the current NSW committee have a huge problem with anything ISA does so no surprise there. Lets face it the Canterbury committee did a better job of Hollins .. gifts and programs for the skaters, free entry, NSW Nationals gave not a thing and they asked for even more money for people to walk through the door.

NSW needs to do SOMETHING .. ANYTHING for it's skaters.

Yes we all know Canterbury is old and tired and who is on the board ... surprise, surprise a number of the same people who run NSW....

magic thinkin · Mastering Flip Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 29

Entry to Nationals for spectators has never been free with each competitor getting one chaperone ticket. Thinking about sport and "arts" in general... A Mascot Rugby league club charges all spectators $5 to watch Junior Grand finals hosted at it's grounds regardless of them being parents of the children. Dance school end of year concerts carry an audience charge, national swimming championships are tcketed and charged. The majority of sports at National level have spectator charges. Travel overseas to Figure Skating competitions and spectators pay to watch.

Interesting though people who volunteer to assist with the running or organising of Nationals get free entry to the whole of the competition. The organising committee have rarely declined assistance even from interstate visitors to Nationals.

Oz_Sk8_Mum · Moderator Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Sydney

Entry to the 2008 Nationals in Brisbane was free.

Problem with charging entry into skating comps is your just slogging the same people over and over because other than relatives who comes? Not the general public why would they, there is no advertising, no profile .. I know I don't invite my friends to pay $10 to come watch my kids for a 3 min program and then $10 again the next day.

Look at the Junior youth Olympics, Full house standing room only .. free entry. We don't have a sport that people know enough about to be able to charge high entry fees. Raise the profile maybe get the general public to come and charge them, but to charge the families over and over....
_________________
Oz_Sk8_Mum
I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

magic thinkin · Mastering Flip Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 29

Okay I stand corrected....having had at least one child in at least one event in every Nationals since 1997 life becomes a blur.

I understand the organisers needing to charge spectators entry....it is expensive to run large competitions using prime ice time. The lack of charges for spectators is offset by the cost to competitors to compete. My relatives and friends have never quibbled at paying to see my kids on the ice in competitions because not only do they get a chance to see my kids they also get to see some really good figure skating and some truly committed athletes.

In the 18 years I have had children skating the one thing I have learned is that figure skating is not a charity and it has no profile in Australia and hearing things from overseas it's profile is slipping internationally.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

I have put this topic up in that Nationals forum as it is becoming quite hot and would probably be more accessible here than being in FAQ.

I have heard on the grapevine that Nationals may be in Melbourne next year. If that is the case I will be more than likely involved in the organisation of it in some way.

In joining the discussion, I don't think people mind paying something to watch, but what they do object to is being asked to pay everyday. There should be some kind of season ticket for those who are attending everyday and maybe it could be say $25 which I think is affordable and more palatable to those people who have to be there everyday. And have a cheaper rate for kids. But it really shouldn't be anymore. Then you could have casual entries for those who go just as a one off but again keep the price cheap.

I think the biggest problem we have as a sport it is totally run by volunteers (and as one of those volunteers I can tell you I have pretty much reached my limits). It is exhausting. You keep trying to tell people that we need people to run the sport and they say they will help here and there but not many want to commit. But I am talking to the converted here so we would all be in agreeance with this.

So this becomes a problem for an event like Nationals - where do you get the people to run it from?

magic thinkin · Mastering Flip Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 29

In the "time poor" society we now live in where compassion and empathy are disappearing rapidly over the horizon every organisation running on volunteers is scratching and burn out amongst volunteers is increasing. As a singble parent I have to limit who and how I commit. I limit myself to one sporting body committee at a time. I have done the committe thing with skating in the past and still help out at major events where I can....I have moved on to cricket and guess what folks it has all the same issues. A few parents running clubs, competitions and teams while the majority of parents use it as a baby sitting service and dish out ample critism at every chance.

I imagine running Nationals in Victoria will be a big load for a state which hasn't hosted the event in over a decade. But then again there is less burn out amongst volunteers. Giving volunteers incentive to help out by offering free spectator entry to those who do assist may help. It may even help to invite volunteers from the inter state "skating family" to assist as many of those travelling to Nationals will spend time in the rink at a loose end. Some volunteers are happy to assist no matter where it is.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

In Victoria because we have only had one rink in Melbourne, we are probably behind the other states in experience of holding large events. But I can certainly say there is a level of complacency because for a long time it has been a few people doing all the work. Yes the skater numbers have been a factor, but it is actually mainly been the adults who have been the most active in the organisation of the sport in Melbourne (that doesn't include Bendigo which is parent run). And the consequence have been there are only a few people who have all the knowledge and skills. Even though we may not have run an event like Nationals, we have been incredibly active and I can tell you there is burn out happening with a few people (including myself). Because it is the same people sitting on the clubs and ISV, not to mention all the things they do around that.

I agree that if Melbourne was to get Nationals then opening up the volunteer workforce to interstaters should be considered. I know when I went to Canberra to judge Autumn Trophy I was more than happy to pitch in with set-up and pack up. If anything it may end up being a necessity.

In fact this might be a good opportunity in this thread to put forward ideas and discuss ways that we could have an effective Nationals which is cost effective but well done. Let's talk positive instead of trying to always find the negative. From our various experiences is so easy to do that, but I would like something to enlighten me and lift my spirits.

Oz_Sk8_Mum · Moderator Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Sydney

SFSC hosted Nationals this year and we did a couple of things to help boost our volunteer numbers.

We had flower girls! How may that have helped? Well we actively sort out kids from our Aussie Skate who were not club members. As these were little kids their parents had to bring them, as the parents were sitting with the kids they were also given a job, gate marshal. The club did two things, we gave these families the opportunity to watch some skating at a level they had not seen before, we also gained quite a few very keen families and kids. We gave the kids a small gift and the families got free entry to the rink, they also had access to our catering and were made to feel welcomed and valued.

We then offered to our club members incentives to work, we offered free memberships for a time value and we also had a number of skaters who worked as well and they were offered a voucher at JB-HiFi.

This cost our club a lot of money it cost NSW nothing.

Our members were abused at the door by angry parents about entry fees, photo permission, video permission and any number of other things.

Some people help because they want to and others help if there is something in it for them and some don't do anything at all no matter what..

This year our club is offering a whole new criteria on some funding issues and part of the eligibility to gain funding will be volunteering within the club. Fingers crossed.
_________________
Oz_Sk8_Mum
I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

jwwebbo · Mastering Swizzles Joined: 23 Jan 2009 Posts: 11

hi there, there has been some descussion on this thread on the cost of holding a National Championship and entry fees and other coments about NSWISA and ISA etc.
Look I can sympathise that that cost of skating is going up and up I know ths probably better than anyone, and entry fees into competitions seems to hurt the ones who always support their children, the parents.
To host a National championship, ISA charge the association state in the order of approx $10000, and it is up to the state association to try to recoup this money through entry fees etc.
ISA need funds to keep their organisation going as well. ISA look after the governance of the sport and try to help fund elite level skaters and International judges. there is not a lot of money to go arround and they do not get much. They also run training sessions for judges and have development programs as well. They are run by a comittee of volunteers and are all hard working for the better of the sport.
I am quite sure that most whom have made critisim about NSWISA probably do not know how much the committe does and how much it costs to put on competitions for its members.
NSWISA also has had International coaches i.e, Cathy Casy and Anne Schelter, which have run at a BIG loss so that members can access these training and development sessions at a LOW cost.
It also has to keep computer systems in order for comps, employ an overworked secretary, pay for Insurance for each skater, the list goes on.
It is an expensive sport, ice costs, coaches, entry fees, outfits etc. and as I mentioned it is expensive for state and National associations to hold these events, but at the end of the day $10 for an entry fee is not much, getting abused for it should not be tolerated.
The most valuable asset for this sport is the help and dedication the volunteer puts in.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

Are people aware of the $25 per competitive skater that ISA are planning on introducing next year?

Oz_Sk8_Mum · Moderator Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Sydney

ISA are presenting the roadshow this weekend in Sydney. Our club will be going to one of the presentations on Saturday afternoon. All the Sydney based clubs have been invited and I believe they are also presenting to NSWISA and the rinks.
I guess we will find out more about what the proposals are then.
_________________
Oz_Sk8_Mum
I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

Can you let us know the outcome?

We have our ISV meeting tonight so I am sure we will find out more as well.

Oz_Sk8_Mum · Moderator Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Sydney

Carole · Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 7

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest about holding nationals next year.
There are obviously some issues which need to be addressed.
Following Hollins I also thought the rink needed a good clean, the photos showed the barrier to be in a poor state.
And sorry to all at the time but I also felt that paying at the door was inappropriate. But having said that I do agree that you wouldn't go to the movies and get free entry or the local pool, or a theme park or a dance concert, so I feel that a reasonable entry fee is acceptable. Having said that though who gets the profits from the coffee shop. Do the clubs or associations get a share? Or does it all go to the coffee shop proprietor?
But the one thing that really fired me up, and it's a subject that brings me to the edge every time is the issue about photography/video. I not only have to get permission to photograph my child (who is an adult). This time I was expected to pay for the priviledge. That really brought me unstuck! Thank goodness Sean O'Brien was there to save the day for all
concerned, (me included).
I have had this argument many times with many people and I find it to be ludicrous. I could understand it if we were at the beach or a public swimming pool, but not in an ice rink. I realise the laws are there for everyone but surely there can be a cut-off point, especially for those skaters who are over the age of 18 years, as is the case with my son. I still purchase the photos and videos which are done professionally. So I continue to support the professionals as well. I don't know the answer to this complex problem, but maybe some people in higher places could give it some serious thought for the future.
My next query is about the $25.00 for each competitor. Why is this necessary when the entry fee is $250 per child? Isn't that enough? It's no different to any other sport, but it feels like all we do as parents is pay, pay, pay. Now that I have put in my 2 cents worth I'll leave you all in peace. Thanks for listening to my gripes. Carole.

Oz_Sk8_Mum · Moderator Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 151 Location: Sydney

Please remember that the SFSC runs Hollins and the NSWISA ran Nationals .. the rules and charges had nothing to do with the SFSC we were just the workers.

At Hollins we had Free entry and you could take your own photo's and video. We also gave each competitor a Gift and a Bag and a Program. And we plan on the same for next year. Hollins is also run in prime time (without Synchro ... lots of money in Synch!).
_________________
Oz_Sk8_Mum
I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

kwillyau · Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 197

Carole · Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 7

To Oz_Sk8_Mum, we have always enjoyed Hollins. It has always been a well run competition with fabulous trophies. We get many compliments from visitors when they see the "Hollins" trophies. It's always a great comp, the people at the rink are friendly and helpful. The only gripe is the late finish. But having said that, there are a lot of skaters that enter, and they all have to fit in, in three days. Thats a big ask! Well done SFSC. Carole.